Do girls not like nice guys?

Seeing this comic today got me thinking: Are “nice guys” actually “nice”, and why wouldn’t a girl be attracted to niceness? What’s really going on here?

The way I see it, there are nice guys who are attracting women, and there are nice guys who aren’t. Being nice just doesn’t factor into the equation all that much; at least in terms of the initial attraction.

Nearly every guy I know has had to overcome a massive, crippling fear of being rejected by the opposite sex. It begins with the onset puberty, comes on full force in high school, and for some poor souls it might last an eternity. Oftentimes, Mr. Fear of Rejection thinks that if he’s just nice enough to a girl, she’ll eventually get the hint that he’s interested in her. And when she does, she’ll fall heads over heels for him without him ever actually needing to ask her out directly, thus avoiding the chance of rejection altogether.

Plenty of other nice guys have gotten past the fear of rejection, and have started asking girls out. And giving them lots of compliments. And buying them dinner, with flowers and gifts thrown in. Sometimes writing a poem or creating an animated South-Park-style video expressing that he understands she’s not ready for a serious relationship and he’s willing to wait and work at being the kind of guy she wants to be with. (No, I’m not speaking from personal experience. Leave me alone.) And doing everything short of falling on his knees and begging the girl to be with him, sometimes before he’s even gotten to know her!

Why does this happen? Because everything that nice guy is doing to try to win the girl over is not making him more attractive to her, and in all likelihood is making him less attractive. Seeking approval by bending over backwards for someone, especially someone who hasn’t put in much effort themselves, sends a clear message: that you are beneath them, and that you are not a valuable challenge.

And a lot of times, that “nice guy” behaviour leads to a few qualities that aren’t so nice to deal with: being defensive, complaining, overprotectiveness and insecurity.

What are women attracted to, then? Qualities that we normally associate with successful, grown men: confidence, leadership, self-control, indifference (like not throwing a fit if she hasn’t responded to your last text), and independence. Notice that nice isn’t on the list, but being a jerk isn’t either.

Of course, some guys take their confidence a little too far, and that’s when they enter douchebag territory:

There are always some women who are attracted to “bad boys”, because bad boys usually demonstrate attractive qualities, and by being jerks they seemingly pose a challenge. The women’s misguided logic might be something like, “Well if he treats me like trash and is willing to lose me, he must be worth more than the other guys.” And that’s a shame. But if the girl has respect for herself and knows what kind of man she deserves, she’ll move on once she sees past the initial attraction.

The point is, you don’t have to be a bad boy to be attractive to women. You just have to be confident in who you are. And the thing about being confident is that it’s not something you have to struggle to learn or gain. It doesn’t take years of practice. It’s something you already have. You just need to shed all the insecurities, fears, and self-doubts and let that inner confidence come to the surface. And when a guy has confidence in himself, he won’t need to spend all his time trying to bribe or convince a girl to be with him – which is what “nice” guys do – and he won’t have to, either.

Side Note: While we’re on the topic of attraction, I came across an article recently about women who pursue men (rather than being totally passive and waiting for men to come to them), and basically how societal expectations make men turned off by those women. Who are these men that get turned off when a woman shows that she is into them? Yes it goes against expected gender roles, but if a girl is valuable enough to attract men when she’s passive, there’s no way that being aggressive would land her less dates. It could just be that when she gets aggressive, it advances to the point where the guy has to tell her he’s not actually interested a little sooner than he would have otherwise (which might never happen if she were solely playing the role of the pursued). So yes, women who pursue men get rejected sometimes. Because that’s what happens sometimes when you pursue. But I’m going to need some controlled studies and large sample sizes before I believe that guys are actually turned off by a woman who is confident enough to make the first move.

J.D. + Turk > Your Romantic Relationship

If you’ve watched Scrubs, you know that there’s nothing as powerful as the guy love between J.D. and Turk. Click the image below to relive the greatest bromance of our generation.

And they’re best friends in real life too!

Oh Dear: ’80s Video Dating

Enjoy this montage of classy gentlemen from the video dating service “Videomate”. Here’s hoping eHarmony, OKCupid, etc. start video self-introduction features so we can look forward to more of these.

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George Costanza’s Dating Rules

Important guidelines from the preeminent philanderer of our time, George Costanza.

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Sunday comic

Playing around with Skitch today, made a little comic just for kicks.

A sad truth about dating in Shanghai

First off I just want to be clear that I’m not writing about all guys and girls in Shanghai. I know that every person is unique and relationships can vary. Having said that, I believe what I’m about to say does apply to a large number of people in Shanghai. I’m basing this on what I’ve seen (and experienced firsthand) in nearly four years here.

So what is this sad truth about dating?

To put it simply… that many young Chinese women looking to have long-term relationships with Western guys are going to fail.

There are multiple reasons for this. One practical reason is that there aren’t enough Western guys here to meet the demand (not a bad problem to have if you’re a Western guy). Another is that Western guys tend to come to Shanghai for a few years or less, and often have no interest in settling down here. Those are pretty straightforward, but there’s another reason that a lot of people think but don’t say out loud because it’s a sensitive subject – the cultural differences.

I won’t get into the myriad of cultural dimensions and how China and the US compare and contrast – to do so would take far too much time and get away from the point. I’ll just briefly talk about some differences in dating and relationships.

In the US, people tend to start dating at an earlier age than in China. Growing up I was encouraged to date girls (by my parents, my friends, my sports coaches and even teachers), and I had my first “girlfriend” when I was 11 (puppy love!). We generally have an idea throughout school that dating is fun, not serious, and is good practice for real relationships later in life. Because of that Americans (and other Westerners) tend to have a lot of confidence in dating by the time we’re in our 20s. Contrast this with China, where until recently it’s been taboo to date in school, and plenty of people don’t hit the dating scene until college or later. And, ironically, as soon as some girls finish college their parents want them to get married! So from what I can tell, relationships are considered a very serious thing and a pathway to marriage for more traditional-minded Chinese. Due to the lack of dating experience, and the fact that many live at home with parents well into adulthood, a lot of young Chinese women come off as childish to Western guys.

On the other hand, I know there are plenty of young people in Shanghai who are less traditional and love to party and have fun and hook up casually. Actually, there seems to be a very clear divide between “party girls” and “traditional girls”. And that’s exactly why it’s hard for a Western guy to find a serious Chinese girlfriend…

If a guy is out looking for party girls, then he isn’t looking for a serious relationship (or he just wants to have some fun while still looking for a girlfriend). If he isn’t a party guy but he happens to meet a party girl, he probably won’t be too interested in her as a serious girlfriend because Western guys usually don’t want to settle down with a girl who drinks and clubs a lot and is easy to take home. A lot of times guys (both Chinese and Western) aren’t even getting to know these girls because they only meet up in noisy clubs where having a conversation is near-impossible.

More traditional Chinese girls also might not snag a Western guy, for a number of reasons. Sometimes they haven’t had as much dating experience and tend to be nervous and shy, which is cute at first but gets old fast. Or she might be so concerned with maintaining a traditional image that she exerts very little sexuality, and a Western guy who is used to more confident girls will be turned off if there isn’t at least some hint of sexuality (this doesn’t mean getting physical, it just means showing confidence in your physicality). Traditional girls also tend to let their dates dominate the conversation – which can be a result of the language barrier (they’re usually dating in English) or she might be comfortable in a submissive role for tradition’s sake. Either way, it’s not the type of girl that Western guys usually go for. The type of girl Westerners will want to date seriously is somewhere in the middle of the party girl and the traditional girl. And she is difficult to find, at least among the under 30 age group in Shanghai!

That previous point about the language barrier is important too. How many Western-Chinese couples do you know who speak Chinese with each other instead of English? Not many, I’m guessing. So the mere fact that a lot of Chinese girls dating Western guys don’t speak English fluently is another issue. As we get older and more mature, so do our conversations – and the type of conversation you can have with someone who is fluent in the language is bound to have more depth and variety than it is with someone who is still learning the language. It goes both ways. If I date a Chinese girl who doesn’t speak English, we can get to know each other because I speak some Chinese. But after a while she will probably get bored of my simple Chinese comments.

Put all this together and what do you get?  A lot of Western guys who do not take local girls seriously in Shanghai because they either can’t find or aren’t looking for serious relationship contenders.

I said at the beginning that “most young Chinese girls looking to have long-term relationships with Western guys are going to fail.” I should clarify…they will fail for now. But as they get older they might grow into the type of women that is more likely to be a solid partner for a Western guy. Plenty of women here do! And of course there are plenty of Western-Chinese couples here that are successful long-term.

I also want to add that I don’t think any of the cultural norms for either side are right or wrong – I’m only trying to comment on the situation as I see it. I also don’t mean to suggest that Chinese women should force themselves to adapt to what a Western guy wants. I think both men and women should make an effort to learn about one another and be willing to change to become better partners. However the fact remains that most Western-Chinese couples tend to speak English and follow Western cultural norms, for better or worse. As more Westerners become fluent in Chinese and learn more of Chinese culture that could certainly change.

And to end on a lighter note… here is John Stamos’ guide to cuddling:

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Happy Valentine’s Day

In honor of St. Valentine, Matthew Belinkie gives us a supercut of gushy Hollywood “I love you”s and other romantic gestures from some of our most favorite (As Good as it Gets, Forrest Gump, Braveheart, The Princess Bride, Jerry Maguire, etc.) and least favorite (Twilight?! Seriously?) movies.  
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Also can’t leave out these adorable Game of Thrones Valentine’s Day cards from illustrator Chris Bishop.

Things women say (and what they really mean)

Yes. = No.

No. = Yes.

Maybe. = No.

Sure… go ahead. = I’ll make you regret this.

Do what you want. = I’ll make you regret this.

It’s fine, really. = It’s absolutely not fine.

It’s your decision. = The correct decision should be obvious by now.

I’m sorry. = You’ll be sorry.

We need… = I want…

We need to talk. = I need to complain.

I’m not upset. = Of course I’m upset!

I’m not yelling! = I am yelling because I think this is important.

This kitchen is a bit cramped. = I want a new house.

I want new curtains. = and carpeting, and furniture, and wallpaper…

I heard a noise. = I’m not ready for you to fall asleep yet.

Do you love me? = I’m going to ask for something expensive.

How much do you love me? = I did something you’re really not going to like.

Is my ass fat? = Tell me I’m beautiful.

You have to learn to communicate. = Just agree with me.

Was that the baby? = Go check on the baby, I’ll sleep some more.